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xXxtreme
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For the typical or average user, I think our current theme structure is much too complicated and plagued with useless and excessive classes. I have already made the move to eliminate this problem in themes I design myself, for the most part...

The main problem I see is the abundance of classes controlling text when the entire site could be controlled using simple css coding in the header file.

Now, classes controlling blocks and such are a necessity, but everything else, in my opinion, is total overkill.

I'm still in the process of building my "base theme" from the ground up, but it'll soon be completed and I will post it here to show you all my opinion of what direction we could take for a more user-friendly and ultimately universal theming structure.

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Kuragari
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i agree that there does need to be some sort of 'standard' in place for which classes are used, and the theme should have full control over the entire site, not just the parts that were decided to not be hardcoded. this is also from a coder point of view, not just for people making themes. when developing blocks and especialy modules, it's hard to figure out which classes to use, and where to use them so that the module will look proper in all aspects.

hopefully some sort of standard set of classes can be agreed upon for themers and developers alike.


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xXxtreme
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I think, in reality, we only need these classes in our current theme structure:

.table1
.table2
.blockhead
.blockcontent

And SOME classes regarding the forum/memberlist/group tables.

Yet, don't quote me on this yet, as my base theme and tutorial will be available in a day or two.

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Last edited by xXxtreme on Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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t31os
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It would be very helpful to have all those random classes removed or changed in some of the modules, such as the attachment table in the forums which uses 1 or 2 classes which are non-existent.

There's more then a few of these random non-existent classes in the modules, and like i mentioned in another thread, a few classes are used in like 1 or 2 places throughout the CMS, and seems a waste and a drag on the CSS.

I'll pull together some examples later tonight for you, removal or replacement of these stray classes would be nice.


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t31os
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If you remove .adminitem from the CSS you'll get all admin buttons in a long vertical list.

I don't think it should be cut down too as little as you're suggesting, where would you define colours for the forums etc?..... are you suggesting we move away from CSS and define these properties in the template/forums files?

I think it could be greatly improved, but removing too many is going to make it harder for a newbie to change something simple in theme without hard coding files, the whole point of all these options in the CSS is for ease of customization right??..... move back to the hard code and its a step back.

I think removing some classes will work, but removing to many will take away the ease of theming for a new user.

Here's one thing that could be improved, and this is the tip of the iceberg...

input.mainoption & input.liteoption are both the same minus the font-weight, but is that really needed?........

Then again i don't think most of the input classes are needed, but a few for customization would be good.


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Last edited by t31os on Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xfsunoles
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you noticed .title is used in title() but it's not needed in Template based theme.

.content isn't needed in block since it can .blockcontent took handle of it.

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t31os
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.content is also used quite a few other files, such as the comments page of the news module.

All files that make calls to the class.....


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Kuragari
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yes, it shouldnt be cut down too much, i was thinking maybe 30 classes for all the little things here and there that need to be controlled seperately, and you dont want to group to many things into one class, otherwise theres alot of limitation put on what can be used where.

a good example would be the module i'm currently working on, i use the .content class as well as the .newstopic class for making the 'areas' of the module look the way i want, but i was also trying to find simple classes to use in a <span> or something similar just to change certain text to a different color. I had no luck finding such a thing in my current theme.

the (short) list of classes i think would be needed are as follows:

for 'default' content
body, body text, links, table1, table2

for 'alternate default' (or, second colors)
content, content2, text, text2, table3, table4

for blocks
body, body text, links (possibly the same as the 'default'

i think the forums and coppermine should each have their own set of classes, neither would amount to much more than stated above, and possibly each would only need a couple 'custom' classes, the rest should be easy enough to lump together with the 'defaults'

i havent actually gone through and figured out how many are really needed and what arent, but this is a general base set i think would be good to start from.

any thoughts?


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t31os
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Its for this reason that i'm quite reluctant to just jump in and remove classes without looking into where they are used.

If we're gonna remove classes, we should at least make sure the team does'nt mind either removing them from areas within DF and the Modules or give them new classes to assign the areas effected by removal of the classes.


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t31os
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Ok, lets say you remove these...



The effect?..... see attached images

Image 1 shows the cpgnuke theme here on cpgnuke.com, image 2 shows removing those classes and the effect it has as shown via my local test site.

So lets say we do remove those classes, how do we then make our forums look nice define the colours for the rows etc??....


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t31os
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I'm not doubting this was thought about, just raising the question(s).


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Kuragari
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i'm pretty new at css but...

td.row1,td.row2,td.row3 { background: #EFEFEF; }

doesn't this make 3 classes with the same background?
why even have 3 of them


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xXxtreme
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Go through and you'll find tons of instances like this.

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xXxtreme
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.table1,.table2 { border: 0px solid #333333; border-spacing: 0; padding: 7px; background: #404B5E; } .forumbody { background: #333333; border: 0px #333333 solid; } .forumtd { background: #404B5E; } .blockheader { color: #FFFFFF; font-weight: bold; width: 190px; height: 17px; padding-top: 13px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 5px; background: #000000 url(../images/block-top.gif); } .blockcontent { color: #FFFFFF; font-size: 10px; width: 176px; border: 0px solid #000000; padding: 12px; background: #403F3F url(../images/block-middle.gif); } .blockfooter { width: 200px; height: 21px; background: #000000 url(../images/block-bottom.gif); } .code,.quote { color: #FFFFFF; border: #333333; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; background: inherit; } input, textarea, select { color: #FFFFFF; background: #404B5E; border: 1px solid #333333; font: normal 11px Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; } input.post, textarea.post, select { background: #404B5E; border: 1px solid #333333; } input { text-indent: 2px; } input.button { color: #FFFFFF; background: #404B5E; border: 1px solid #333333; font: 11px Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; } input.mainoption { color: #FFFFFF; background: #404B5E; border: 1px solid #333333; font: bold 11px Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; } input.liteoption { color: #FFFFFF; background: #404B5E; border: 1px solid #333333; font: normal 11px Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; } .helpline { color: #FFFFFF; border-style: none; background: #404B5E; } .bbcbutton { border-style: outset; border-width: 1px; }

This is pretty much the standard css file I end up with when building MY themes.

Would you like some screen shots to show the lack of customization by limiting classes?


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xXxtreme
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And yes... That can be optimized even more.


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