this is an idea i have had for a while, and i just posted it in another forum, perhaps this is a better place for it.
From my point of view, a theme engine would be much better than individual themes, something with several basic layouts, choice of buttons and colours to start with, a choice to add a new header graphic, some different frame designs, and a choice of menu designs.
Ideally it would have a preview window so you could see the results of the changes as you make them.
That would make it very easy to get an individual site up and running quickly and without the kind of issues i have been having with switching and modifying themes.
As it is, you have to spend a great deal of time learning the ins and outs of the theme you choose, then modifying it to suit yourself.
I kind of enjoy that kind of thing, but from a noob's point of view, someone with no web design and graphics skills, or the time to tinker, its impossible.
I do think Dragonfly is a great system, and for the most part pretty easy to set up and maintain, but such a thing would make dragonfly stand head and shoulders over the other CMS's i have looked at, and make it a truly user friendly system.

i think the theme engine that we have currently is actually quite brilliant. i only really work with 1 theme and then mod the hell out of it. it's really not that hard. just run with it.

the latter version i think is way too much over head with making more stuff dynamic that really doesn't need to be. that is more code i think that shouldn't be there.

i say learn this way of doing things. it's actually pretty well done. i've been researching and learning it for over a few days now. or weeks, one or the other ;). but either way it works very well. choose a theme and then toto the area that you are trying to edit and just keep refreshing until it's done or the way that you like it. i don't see why you would need anything else if that way would work just fine.

good luck with it

pretzy wrote:

I kind of enjoy that kind of thing, but from a noob's point of view, someone with no web design and graphics skills, or the time to tinker, its impossible.

With all due respect, maybe someone that green would be better off spending some time learning before opening a website. Web owners are supposed to be webmasters. Dragonfly is a CMS or Content Management System. It is not a website in a box, nor should it be. It is supposed to help run a website, not be one all by itself.

I agree MrPotatoes, for you and i it works well enough, what im trying to do is present an idea that would make Dragonfly more usefull and much easier for newbies.
I have plenty of friends that would love to set up a website of their own, but find even a basic instalation of CPGNuke too difficult.
Theres a very good reason most people use windows. You install it, set a few prefferences as you go and it just works, click an install file to add a new program, check a box to change the colour.
Most people that use computers don't understand or even know about firewalls or antivirus programs.
They just want to turn it on and use it, like the dvd player.
Anything that is a step in that direction will only make Dragonfly a better choice for the masses.
Can you imagine a one click installer, then open the program and set a few colour choices and select a theme, and voila, an instant website.
You don't need to program a coke bottle to make it work, or understand how the drink is installed in the bottle.

Point well taken NEMINI, i appreciate everything has limitations, and Dragonfly works very well within its paramaters.
But why shouldn't it be a website in a box? There is certainly a need for such a thing, and a huge potential user base for it.
You don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car.
There will always be a place and a need for more techincally skilled people to design and administer complex sites, but there is no reason someone who can use outlook express couldn't run a basic website.
Otherwise whats the point of a graphical user interface, with nice big friendly icons? Surely that is indeed the point behind the whole Dragonfly concept?
In any case, it was just an idea i had which i thought could potentially improve the whole package.
I love Dragonfly and the fact that it has given me the chance to have a web presence without having to script the whole site myself, but everything can be improved. There is not much point writing programs for programmers, and its all too easy, once we learn how to do something, to forget that many other people have no idea how it's done.

i don't understand this too well. i'll have to agree desperatly with NEMINI. web owners should be web masters. if they cannot install something as simple as DF they then should really be spending more time working on thier web skills in general.

secondly DF is not a website in a box. but it's free and open source. you want the help come here or if you want something done you can hire someone or learn it and do it yourself. PHP is really not that hard butt hat is besides the point.

DF is a 2 step install after an upload. maybe a CHMOD. that's as easy as setting up Windows. if they need a server to help them out with requirements then hell there is site5 and another cheap one apparently. rock out. it's slightly more difficult than Windows but it's not terribly harder. if they want themes then they pop them into the folder and they can check it out thru the admin section.

i won't like some of the people here can be awfuly rude when you come on and ask a question. especially if you are new to websites and DF in general. but that is what research is about. i didn't know anything about DF unti li searched for something PHP Nuke wise and then found this luckly. research and perserverance is awesome.

what you are talking about is something for a person to make a website without knowing a single thing about web development, launching and marketing. there are other things that i can paralell this too like in my industry. you can make a game in flash but that does not by far make you a game designer. there are tools out there to make fame making as simple as point and click. but without that extra background you will make crap.

if it's for someone that you are setting up for then no problem. do it yourself. if they want something custom then do it yourself and charge for it. no biggie.

and FYI, i'm pretty new to this system. i've only really been working on it for 2 weeks now but i've been in here for about 3 months or more. and i've gained alot of knowladge about it in that short period of time. granted i do know programming and anything computers comes to me very quickly

i say learn and work. no other way around it. what are you? a lazy american? lol. (joke people. don't get your panties in a bunch)

Thank you, MrPotatoes, for your perspicacious, well thought out and considerate reply. It has been duly noted and placed on file with the other rolls.
It's heartening to see new ideas are greeted with such ardent enthusiasm.
Did i miss something, or is this thread really titled heap {expletive removed} on the new guy ?

lol. i'm not going at you. i'm just telling you that it's not a bad thing to learn no things.

don't take it to heart.

what you are asking is a huge change in the system. also everything that has currently been created to date to work with the current system that you are proposing.

it's not a terrible idea but its just something that i don't see happening and also it's far too difficult to code. hell, if it's a big issue you can try it. start putting stuff together and make it a module that overrides the current themeing system for the people that you will be setting it up for

and for the record i wan't being mean, nasty or an ass. i was trying to talk to you. don't get your panties in a bunch. just rock out

Awwww, and i thought you wanted to play
I don't think its such a huge thing, altho it's beyond me or i would try it.
Seems to me it would only take a dialogue that writes to a css and selects various images from a folder, it could still add new theme packs as modular additions to allow for variety and keep it up to date.
I have seen similar things such as Color Picker written in into a HTML page, so i don't think its a such big thing.
I'm really not a scripter, for me my site is about the content, and while i have had fun customising it, i am still a relative noob at this.
I have only had my server running about a month, and my first website up about 2 weeks.
I do some repairs and system builds, i'm more of a hardware junkie than a coder, but i can sus a program and understand some of the basics, and have a reasonable grasp of HTML.
But there are millions of people out there who don't have a fraction of the background that i have, and that's small enough understanding compared to many.
In that time i have learned a little, and am learning more about running and maintaining a server and a Dragonfly based website, and yes hopefully i will keep learning, as you know MrPotatoes, thats half the fun of it.
All those other millions though, what CMS would you prefer they run? I guess they will just have to wait until microsoft brings out MS_CMS
Please take my suggestions in the spirit in which they are offered. I mean no one offense, or in any way to criticise what i consider to be the best and easiest to use CMS that i have yet tried. If i see something i think can make things better, i will say so here

hmm, you mean www.microsoft.com/cmse...fault.mspx

@ phoenix -- i could have gone my whole life and been better off for never knowing that even existed... ewwwww!

oh my, LMAO!

pretzy wrote:

You don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car.

No, but neither do you just stick the keys in the ignition and drive away. You have to spend time learning first before you can go off on your own.

Website creation is the same thing. You need to learn first. Webmastering isn't a turnkey operation. It takes work, plain and simple.

CMS's aren't geared for the 'simple beginner' type sites you mentioned. CMS's are made to more easily manage complex, multifaceted, advanced sites. A CMS is as much overkill for a 'noob' as would be driving a 200mph racecar be overkill for someone who's never driven before.

good points, even so, I recall djdevon3 working at a basic themeing module - might pay to search these forums for his last progress post

NEMINI wrote:

pretzy wrote: You don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car. No, but neither do you just stick the keys in the ignition and drive away. You have to spend time learning first before you can go off on your own. Website creation is the same thing. You need to learn first. Webmastering isn't a turnkey operation. It takes work, plain and simple. CMS's aren't geared for the 'simple beginner' type sites you mentioned. CMS's are made to more easily manage complex, multifaceted, advanced sites. A CMS is as much overkill for a 'noob' as would be driving a 200mph racecar be overkill for someone who's never driven before.

well i guess you don't get any more consise than that.

horrah for good typists lol