body {
background-color: red;
}

now that's human readable

hex is the best in my opinion. Reason why is because hex is the norm, and how is the browser meant to know if 12 is 12 decimal or 12 hex? how is the theme dsigner meant to know? different browser may implement it differently...

i think that they put too much option in there.

Also, do not forget that the css file gets redownloaded by the browser on every page refresh (but thankfully not every page view).

This means that unless dragonfly cms dynamically generates the css for each page view (more processing time needed) then the much larger css file would be continually downloaded again and again and again and again, seems pointless to me.

I agree that there are big advantages here, but don't go overboard on the idea...

I still use tables and such, they're handy for certain things. Although font tags should be well and trully deprecated. Div's are generally better than tables, but for example if you are making a form and you want the labels to be all nice and neat with their inputs, then using a table is MUCH quicker and easier than using divs (although i suppose that with floating divs it could take up as many "columns" as can be fit on the screen, whereas with tables you will have to cater for the lowest likely viewer resolution).

mc__ wrote:

hex is the best in my opinion. Reason why is because hex is the norm, and how is the browser meant to know if 12 is 12 decimal or 12 hex? how is the theme dsigner meant to know? different browser may implement it differently...

Hex isn’t the norm. Do you use hex in Photoshop? In any other graphic program? No, you convert to hex purely and exclusively for web pages. Hex is on the way out. You can use it in CSS, but why bother when you can just copy RGB values straight from Photoshop?

The browser knows because of the format of the value. Hex codes are still preceded by #. E.g., color:#b1093a, color:#ccc or color:rgb(12, 40, 213) (and, yes, keywords still work, too; e.g., color:cyan.)

mc__ wrote:

Also, do not forget that the css file gets redownloaded by the browser on every page refresh (but thankfully not every page view). This means that unless dragonfly cms dynamically generates the css for each page view (more processing time needed) then the much larger css file would be continually downloaded again and again and again and again, seems pointless to me.

The CSS file gets cached like any other file. If it’s unchanged, it is not redownloaded unless you force reload.

mc__ wrote:

I still use tables and such, they're handy for certain things. Although font tags should be well and trully deprecated. Div's are generally better than tables, but for example if you are making a form and you want the labels to be all nice and neat with their inputs, then using a table is MUCH quicker and easier than using divs (although i suppose that with floating divs it could take up as many "columns" as can be fit on the screen, whereas with tables you will have to cater for the lowest likely viewer resolution).

The problem with that approach is that it continues to lock your layout idea in the PHP code, and gives themers little or no possibility of changing it. In forms, grouping things in fieldsets with legends and labels (and relevant classes and IDs) provides all the markup you need to achieve the same visual style you get with your tables.

Fieldsets and labels?

no, not really, because then it is all stagered.

If i grouped them into divs and made them float left and right appropriately it'd have a similar effect, but then it's less text therefore smaller loading times to just use table syntax.

Mind you i difinitely agree with the fact that all html should be themable (templated), and i am going to convert all of my exisitng work to do this when i get the time to do it. At least that way you can easily modify the output without doing too much to the php script (which'd probably make some people feel more comfortable).

Have fun floating your divs

NEMINI wrote:

and the average person has a much better understand just what color those percentages work out to be ... NOT! Human readable my ass.

You honestly believe #CCCCCC is more readable and portable than rgb(80%, 80%, 80%)? No, you couldn't possibly...no, it must be a joke.

I haven't been able to pay this any attention for a few months, but I'm thinking of starting up again. If people are really opposed to the idea of converting from table layout to CSS positioning with floated DIVs and such, would you at least be unopposed to ripping out all the 1995-esque HTML attribtes from the tables, and making them nonnested?

That is, instead of thirteen (or more!) levels deep of:

table>tr>td>table>tr>td>table>tr>td>table>tr>td...

with all the accompanying hardcoded cellpadding, cellspacing, widths, heights, aligns and valigns, ad nauseum on each level, would you be interested in seeing one table for main column layout, and one-level-deep tables as needed inside the various columns and blocks and such, all labelled with appropriate classes and IDs?

If there's interest, I'll post a mockup. (Note this would be a markup mockup, not a theme markup.)

Any improvements are a good idea.

How do older browsers handle your method compared to how things are now?

Realisticly i have to ask if all the browsers supported now will still work to the same degree using the above.

Yeah i can see what you mean.

I believe that there is plenty of interest, but i also believe that it is maybe a whole lot of work for little gain for this cms? But don't let that stop you.

mc__ wrote:

Also, do not forget that the css file gets redownloaded by the browser on every page refresh (but thankfully not every page view). This means that unless dragonfly cms dynamically generates the css for each page view (more processing time needed) then the much larger css file would be continually downloaded again and again and again and again, seems pointless to me.

Pazu wrote:

The CSS file gets cached like any other file. If it’s unchanged, it is not redownloaded unless you force reload.

That fully depends on your browser behavior.
Some poll the HTTP header "Date-Modified" or post an correct data request to check if it is still the old file using "If-Modified-Since"
www.w3.org/Protocols/r...l#sec14.25