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Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme
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Would you like to see an Everquest 2 Theme too?
Yes I would!
81%
 81%  [ 18 ]
No thank you.
18%
 18%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 22

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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:24 am
Post subject: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

If anyone has the time and is willing to give it a go I would like to ask for a theme (or themes) to be made for those of us who host Everquest 2 Guild websites.

Before converting to Dragonfly I used to use PHPnuke for my guild website. I had purchased This Theme which I slightly modified and in the end worked nicely for our guild website. Now the only thing I REALLY miss in converting from phpnuke to cpgdragonfly is my nice looking themes. I had asked the author of theme 413 (linked above) if he would mind converting his for me over to CPG dragonfly. I can post the rather lengthy e-mail conversation here but to save you the time of reading it, he basically said that he had tried once to get some help porting his php-nuke module over to cpg-dragonfly so that his themes would work here too but with each revision of dragonfly they would break his module. He said that when he had asked for help, no one offered support of any kind. Ultimately he said he would convert the theme for an additional $200 to incorporate the time it would take to learn how create themes that would work in dragonfly. I already paid $30 for the theme, and an additional $200 is way out of my price range given my current situation (the majority of my money has been drained in hospital and gas expenses for my daughter's cancer treatments).

I understand his frustration (if that did indeed happen) however I can't pay that much, so now I'm stuck with a theme I can no longer use, and a great platform with the modules I was looking for (Thanks to Darkgrue!) but well... looks kinda bla. I did my very best but as you can probably see - I'm not a very good themer.

I have asked a couple people here in PMs if they could help out, but they are either too busy or forgot that I had asked lol (no worries though I totally understand) So I figured I would post here.

I know I am not the only one who plays EQ2 and uses dragonfly for their guild website - I've even read about people who(like myself) converted just because of Darkgrue's modules.
I think many like myself are are only missing the beautiful themes we once had to chose from.

So to wrap up, I'm just asking if someone out there could either make a theme for an Everquest 2 Guild website (not a fansite).

OR I guess as an alternative - maybe someone could send an e-mail to Warrick over at spidean.com and offer to help port his theme module over to CPG-Dragonfly again so we could all use both his free and commercial themes, that might do the trick too.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration in reading this.


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beforelast
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:29 am
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

ya .. sorry about that .. i am still workingon it .. i am about half done .. and i plan to finish it b4 c-mas .. sorry there once again

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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

no no don't feel bad! Like I said in the original post I know you're busy, and I do totally understand the reason for delays.
Theme 413 though is a paid theme that can't go public.

My main reason for this post was that I had received PMs on the official EQ2 forums essentially asking me if I could point them to any good Dragonfly theming websites for guilds and games. So I more or less posted here so that maybe the community could come together and perhaps come up with some sort of free generic theme to benefit all, OR maybe coders from here could get together with Warrick and help him get his module working in Dragonfly again - once again to help the cpgdragonfly community in general. I used to use Warricks free AT themes module for PHPnuke and it was absolutely great as it gave all sorts of control over the look and feel of the phpnuke site using html that I was already familiar with.

Either way though beforelast, thank you very much for the update on your progress for me personally, I DO truly appreciate it, and look forward to seeing what you were able to do!


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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:26 am
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

Shade2074 wrote:

OR I guess as an alternative - maybe someone could send an e-mail to Warrick over at spidean.com and offer to help port his theme module over to CPG-Dragonfly again so we could all use both his free and commercial themes, that might do the trick too.

This is a bit of a shameless bump too I know, but I was wondering if any of you programmers might consider this part of my above request (the part I quoted above). If Warrick can get his module running in dragonfly it would open a flood of themes - something I think would really help a great deal.

I guess this part my be better placed in the blocks forums or maybe even the suggestions section, but I hate double posting so I hesitate to ask there...


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djdevon3
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

Here's a good thread that explains a lot:
dragonflycms.org/Forum...art=0.html

Quote::
CM systems should be catering for autotheme, not the other way round.

Quote::
if you want something done, try to convince some of the smart guys to do it - if they don't, do it yourself.

Make sure to grasp your head firmly with both hands as you pull your head out of you ***.

Dear AutoTheme Guy,
Stick with postnuke.

Sincerely,
DJDevon3
=P

If people out there want to pay for a theme then choose a designer that is actively involved with the DF community such as Pitcher, Kristin, t31os, xxx, wsg, or myself.


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Last edited by djdevon3 on Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

That's REALLY odd. I don't know why my search didn't pick those up. I know I searched for Autothemes when I first e-mail Warrik about this and he told me that no one here 'wanted' to help out, but I never did find these posts. I can see now why he's so upset with dragonfly.

It's too bad in my opinion, sure you have to pay for the better themes, but they were good and in my opinion and some of them worth the money he was asking for. (You gotta make a living somehow right?)


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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

djdevon3 wrote:
Here's a good thread that explains a lot:
dragonflycms.org/Forum...art=0.html

Quote::
CM systems should be catering for autotheme, not the other way round.

Quote::
if you want something done, try to convince some of the smart guys to do it - if they don't, do it yourself.

Make sure to grasp your head firmly with both hands as you pull your head out of you ***.

Dear AutoTheme Guy,
Stick with postnuke.

Sincerely,
DJDevon3
=P

If people out there want to pay for a theme then choose a designer that is actively involved with the DF community such as Pitcher, Kristin, t31os, xxx, wsg, or myself.

I agree in that I find those statements distasteful - especially for someone trying to get the module ported - but (and I could be wrong about this) this person lobos I think it was - I don't think he was the creator of autothemes, just a user. Warrik doesn't seem to be like this at all, in fact he was kind enough to donate one of his paid themes as well as some of his time free of charge.

Still though I saw where the first thread you pointed me too (before your edit) went, and I don't wish to cause any trouble. I really did like what that (free) module enabled me to do though, so I didn't think it would hurt to ask (initially).

I think bluewire said it best:
bluewire wrote:
I have no interest in any of the themes created by the AutoTheme team or anyone else really. I do however appreciate the power of the AutoTheme system. If you have never used it, you really can't appreciate or comment on the functionality of the product.

though I personally did like the one EQ2 theme I had, the bold part still holds true in my opinion.


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Last edited by Shade2074 on Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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darkgrue
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

Shade2074 wrote:
That's REALLY odd. I don't know why my search didn't pick those up. I know I searched for Autothemes when I first e-mail Warrik about this and he told me that no one here 'wanted' to help out, but I never did find these posts. I can see now why he's so upset with dragonfly.

He's welcome to be upset. He can feel any way about it, but I don't think his position is justified.

I think the primary problem is three-fold:

First, most of the people capable of doing the port aren't interested in porting Autothemes because they don't need or want it. Many of these people were active in or participated in the development of the Dragonfly theming scheme, and as a result, the status quo represents their ideal state (or a better alternative at least).

The second was that the original request for the port (at least the one everyone remembers) was arrogant and offensive, and at best has poisoned any future interest in the subject. Going to a group of people who are working out of the kindness of their hearts and saying, in essence, "I don't like your new theming engine that your userbase is raving about. Since I can't or won't devote the resources to porting Autothemes, do it for me so I can open a new market in your user base."

Lastly, AutoTheme isn't GPL (or similarly licensed) software. Any effort put into the port would become the property of the original copyright holder(s). Who are making money off it.

This is not to say that Autothemes is a useless system, or that all the themes for it are terrible. Everyone has their own preferences of course. I doubt anyone would object if Autothemes was ported. But the Autothemes module, and most themes for it are primarily a commercial enterprise. While there are some "no-charge" Autotheme licenses (under limited circumstances) and free themes available, the primary function of the whole thing is to sell themes. That's why I think the general consensus is that the responsbility lies with Autothemes. There's nothing that's going to get people around here more hostile than the old "do my work for me for free so I can make money off of your effort" argument.

I can sympathize with end-users who aren't at all concerned with any of these issues and just want themes, and while it's true that it would create a wide base of themes for Dragonfly, so would writing more native Dragonfly themes. What's the cost of an Autothemes license + a theme? What's the cost of retaining a native Dragonfly theme designer and getting a theme to your own specs? (Honestly, I don't know the answers, likely neither is very inexpensive - but if the numbers are relatively on the same order of magnitude I know I'd much rather have something native to Dragonfly and custom for my site than a theme anyone can purchase and duplicate the entire look-and-feel of my site.) There are also a lot of very talented and generous people in the Dragonfly Community who are willing to help and do - but you have to remember we're all volunteers here, things will get done on a schedule that is not likely to be your own.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

darkgrue wrote:

I can sympathize with end-users who aren't at all concerned with any of these issues and just want themes, and while it's true that it would create a wide base of themes for Dragonfly, so would writing more native Dragonfly themes. What's the cost of an Autothemes license + a theme? What's the cost of retaining a native Dragonfly theme designer and getting a theme to your own specs? (Honestly, I don't know the answers, likely neither is very inexpensive - but if the numbers are relatively on the same order of magnitude I know I'd much rather have something native to Dragonfly and custom for my site than a theme anyone can purchase and duplicate the entire look-and-feel of my site.) There are also a lot of very talented and generous people in the Dragonfly Community who are willing to help and do - but you have to remember we're all volunteers here, things will get done on a schedule that is not likely to be your own.

That's is why I dedicated myself in making native Dragonfly Themes for FREE. The only time that I would collect a FEE from someone is when they request a custom personal theme that they would solely have the copy of that theme.

Lately, I had been pushing out more native DF themes in the effort to have more themes out for DF users.

Shade2074 - Instead of trying to port Autothemes, you can always asked if someone can create or port a theme that related to what you need. We have more DF themers now, that I think one of us wouldn't my helping out. Big grin

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beforelast
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

shade .. if you would still like that theme you showed me a while ago i have no problem .. i am just having trouble fighting with the blocks.. they are not co-operating .. i put it off to the side for a while but i plan to get back to it after i do a couple things for other people.. i will prob have it done by mid- jan.. it seem like a long time away but i cant help that with the christmas season coming up ..

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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

I definitely see the points you've made Darkgrue and I whole heartedly agree. I DO feel that it's very unfortunate Lobos made Autothemes look bad, I only used the free version and it was a great module (again in my opinion) for someone with very little experience in theming.

As someone who has virtually no previous knowledge in theming and someone who really does want to learn to make his own themes - I personally wouldn't mind using the Dragonfly theming scheme, but the thing is I haven't been able to find good documentation with working links as to how to create one from scratch
Confused
A few people have pointed me to some helpful sites, but the tutorials are either lacking or links are broken.
Others have suggested that I simply modify someone else's theme and learn that way, but I just feel that if I DO take apart one theme and try to learn that way, I would be missing out on so many other possibilities simply because that theme doesn't include them nor does it explain why the original themer used this code for that or why.

I know that many of the programmers and themers here work entirely on their own time, I for one can't tell you guys and gals how very much I truly appreciate it!

I really DO want to learn though. Someday hopefully I will. Nothing would please me more than to be able to create themes and/or modules that I can then 'give back' to this wonderful community. If anyone wants to point me to a great place to learn to create themes for dragonfly - by all means please do! (It seems my own searching ability very poor for some reason as you can tell since I wasn't able to come up with the links from above. Embarassed )

EDIT:
beforelast wrote:
shade .. if you would still like that theme you showed me a while ago i have no problem .. i am just having trouble fighting with the blocks.. they are not co-operating .. i put it off to the side for a while but i plan to get back to it after i do a couple things for other people.. i will prob have it done by mid- Jan.. it seem like a long time away but i cant help that with the Christmas season coming up ..

I would definitely still like that theme, and thank you again for working on it. I can't wait to see what you've done with it. Please though by all means - take your time, mid January is fine. I too am feeling the crush of the holiday season, more so this year than any other year before this. I have two young children of my own, one's in the hospital for the next two weeks; so when we finally get back home we will only have a couple days to shop Sad .we may have to celebrate Christmas a bit late this year. I figure we can endure anything though so long as when all is said and done my daughter will be fine!

Edit 2:
WOW you guys are replying faster than I can keep up lol.
WebSiteGuru wrote:

Shade2074 - Instead of trying to port Autothemes, you can always asked if someone can create or port a theme that related to what you need. We have more DF themers now, that I think one of us wouldn't my helping out. Big grin

WebSuteGuru, I've been keeping an eye on your work (as well as the others here) you guys are TRULY talented! The original post in this thread was more or less to see if we could get some EQ2 related or perhaps even just generic role-playing game themes.

I wonder if I could instead ask (if you and/or any of the others are willing that is) if someone would mind writing an up to date and complete theming tutorial?
One that covers making a theme from scratch that might include such things as optional code that can be used, things you should consider before you start a theme, ways to validate your theme to ensure that it works with the most browsers possible. Something complete, with step by step images, links to free GPL software one could use to create themes or suggestions on best commercial software for those who are able? Maybe even package it with some generic templates.
Maybe the tutorial could be a nice group project - perhaps even edit the wikki that's here already. lol

I know it's definitely asking a lot. I've written tutorials before and I know it involves a lot of work, thought and consideration (and at least in my own case many updates). For people like myself though this would be such a very very useful tool. Either way though, I DO very much appreciate the work and time you and the others have donated!


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Last edited by Shade2074 on Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

beforelast wrote:
shade .. if you would still like that theme you showed me a while ago i have no problem .. i am just having trouble fighting with the blocks.. they are not co-operating .. i put it off to the side for a while but i plan to get back to it after i do a couple things for other people.. i will prob have it done by mid- jan.. it seem like a long time away but i cant help that with the christmas season coming up ..

Get with me on that and I'll see if I can help out.

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Shade2074
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

LOL you guys are on fire today! you're replying faster than I can edit my own posts lol. That's really what I love about CPG Dragonfly. I just made a second edit to my own post above.
I really want to thank you so much for all the support!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

Shade2074 wrote:
I definitely see the points you've made Darkgrue and I whole heartedly agree. I DO feel that it's very unfortunate Lobos made Autothemes look bad, I only used the free version and it was a great module (again in my opinion) for someone with very little experience in theming.

As someone who has virtually no previous knowledge in theming and someone who really does want to learn to make his own themes - I personally wouldn't mind using the Dragonfly theming scheme, but the thing is I haven't been able to find good documentation with working links as to how to create one from scratch
Confused
A few people have pointed me to some helpful sites, but the tutorials are either lacking or links are broken.

That what happended to me when I first start using DF back in June 2005. I tried everything including Autothemes (didnt work at the time). And I finally sat down and learn how to theme (example help from Wiki Doc by xXxtreme). It took me 2 weeks and I cam up with InfoTech Theme. I was happy that I made it. After that I started messing around trying to make a better theme for my Information Technology Resources site. Ever since then I had made more themes for everyone for FREE.

Shade2074 wrote:

Others have suggested that I simply modify someone else's theme and learn that way, but I just feel that if I DO take apart one theme and try to learn that way, I would be missing out on so many other possibilities simply because that theme doesn't include them nor does it explain why the original themer used this code for that or why.

That is where most everyone started at, I myself used cpgnuke theme as the base of my learning how to do DF Theme.

Shade2074 wrote:

I know that many of the programmers and themers here work entirely on their own time, I for one can't tell you guys and gals how very much I truly appreciate it!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Most other themers do work that way. I am one of many.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Theme Request: Everquest 2 Guild Theme

Quote::
I wonder if I could instead ask (if you and/or any of the others are willing that is) if someone would mind writing an up to date and complete theming tutorial?
One that covers making a theme from scratch that might include such things as optional code that can be used, things you should consider before you start a theme, ways to validate your theme to ensure that it works with the most browsers possible. Something complete, with step by step images, links to free GPL software one could use to create themes or suggestions on best commercial software for those who are able? Maybe even package it with some generic templates.
Maybe the tutorial could be a nice group project - perhaps even edit the wikki that's here already. lol

I know it's definitely asking a lot. I've written tutorials before and I know it involves a lot of work, thought and consideration (and at least in my own case many updates). For people like myself though this would be such a very very useful tool. Either way though, I DO very much appreciate the work and time you and the others have donated!

If you asked any themers here, they'll probably say just about the same thing (correct me if I'm wrong), if not close to it. Theming is like Web Designing. Everyone has their own technique. It is not easy follow one set of instruction. But there will be many different ways of theming. The one that xXxtreme wrote is pretty well a godd basic structure for learning. You can always used theme.php from cpgnuke theme, it had basic structure for creating theme.

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